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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:54 am
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drfreak92 wrote:
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Wow!
That was one of the most interesting writing's I've
read! Excellent rebuttal. Thank you.
~Mr Mark
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Your welcome. I am Glad to hear
you. I appreciate and I thank you to tell me it, for to
my knowledge.
I have supplemented and updated the written in spanish,
to facilitate more information, more reading comfort,
more entertainment and better understanding.
I'm still looking for someone brave translator, of
spanish to english lol lol.
You can see the write in Web site, I think that is much
better than here, because you can see many pictures,
colours, etc. etc. You can see the write in the next
links:
In English by Internet translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=
English web site: http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html
However, If you want to collaborate with me doing a good
or regular translation of my write, because I forget so
much my english and right now is not good, please send me
the good translation to: fiapbt@fiapbt.net I will add your translater credit, of course.
You can take the original Spanish version for the translate in: http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html
THANK YOU in advance.
Mariano Peinado
________________
Villa Liberty kennels: http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org
“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should
not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE
NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”
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Last edited by villaliberty on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:21 am;
edited 4 times in total
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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Mrs. X
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 422
Location: The Outer Reaches
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:35 am
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Interesting.
You mention me sideways, because I'm the one that brought
up the Black Jack connection.
I never said directly off those dogs, I said possibly off
the Black Jack bred dogs from Al Brown, who had them
tighter and better than anyone else.
As for that litter of pups..
Too bad it's not possible to do a parentage DNA.
The ADBA leaves pedigrees as they are unless, they have
the DNA, this is one of the reasons it's agreed that Buck
has the wrong ABDA pedigree, being listed as off Golden
Boy when he's really supposed to be off Little Tater. And
is the spitting image of Litter Tater too.
You can believe what you what, I'm going to go with
science and known genetics..
Black is a dominant gene. You cannot get black unless a
parent is genetically black
There is no recessive black gene in pit bulls. If you
breed two dogs in the B series or E series and get black
puppies there is a problem because black is the K series.
This is not me speaking on this,
this is scientist, geneticists and people that study
canine color DNA. Ask one of them.
You speak of lies and half truths. Genetic fact is no
such thing.
They have PROVEN the canine genome and color sequence.
Prove them wrong with genetic sequences of modern dogs
from brown red and tan dogs throwing black puppies, by
your writing, it should happen all the time. Prove it
through DNA. Your personal speculation and this is so
because I say it is so is not going to work on me. Again,
because I know genetics.
I don't claim to know everything, I am willing to learn, I am willing to be wrong. But unless
it comes from a reputable source in the scientific
genetic community that it's possible, I for one am not
going to believe it.
And being as these dogs were 50 years ago, it doesn't
make that much of a difference my belief, or anyone
else's. It is what it is, and regardless of how they may
or may not be bred, they're good dogs, and we breed those
dogs to this day because they were good dogs, and NOT
because they were a certain color.
K
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_________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious
triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank
with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much
because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither
victory nor defeat.
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Mrs. X
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 422
Location: The Outer Reaches
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:27 am
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http://rayfox6.tripod.com/id52.html
Interview With Legendary Dogman Floyd Boudreaux
May 11,2007
How well did you know Carver?
Pretty good. I saw a lot of his shows and gave him some
dogs, but I never really did much business with him. He
was a nice looking man and could tell a story like no
other. I remember Maurice and Mr. Jolley, from south
Texas, came here one time in 1955 and they were driving a
red Thunderbird convertible. You had to push the car to
start it and they had a black dog named BUTCH with them.
He jumped out of the car and was running to highway and
we had to catch him. Maurice told me he started with the
dogs in 1946, one year after I fought my first dog. He
and his friend Jolley went to Louisiana to fight that
WINO dog that was owned by Jolley. After the fight Jolley
sold the dog over here and Maurice was so angry with him
that he refused to drive back to Texas with Jolley in the
same car. Maurice knew a lot of good dog people and he
would watch the hot young dogs in somebody's backyard and
if you had something he liked he would try and talk you
out of it and then start selling them. I saw him fight a
few good ones but he never did fight many dogs and a lot
of times he would come in overweight. One time he was
matched into Mayfield and come in overweight. But
Mayfield said he would fight anyway. Carver refused and
then sold his dog. That's how he was. Maurice was always
trying to make money with the dogs. How else could he
survive? He wasn't going to work for a living.
Do you think he misrepresented those papers to keep that
a secret?
I'm sure he did to some degree. But in those days it was
pretty much common knowledge that he did and everybody
that needed to know, knew about
it. I did. He bred to my BLIND BILLY dog and that's how
he got IRONHEAD, BOOMERANG and others. They came out of
my stuff. He always told us that BOOMERANG was out of
IRONHEAD. You see Maurice would exaggerate a lot all the
time, and he was smart enough to tell you a lie. Don't
get me wrong, Maurice was a nice guy, but also a liar. He
told me one time that he worked for the Mexican
Government, the Border Patrol, and even told my wife he
worked for the Foreign Legion. But one thing is for sure, he was a hell of a ladies man
and could convince you that black was blue. He sure was a
good salesman
Mr. Boudreaux, I want you to
tell me the full story on the old ELI dog. How he was
bred, his parents, his pups and so on.
I will tell you the true story as it is and I have
witnesses that can tell you this is the truth. If this is
not right, I'm the brother of Martin Luther King. Today
at least 80% of the dogs that are fighting come from ELI.
It makes me mad that they got the story on him and his
sons BULLYSON and ELI JR., turned around. Not for myself,
I know better. I lived it, but the future generation that
is coming behind us doesn't know anything about the truth
and have to rely on what they are reading. That's why I'm
so glad I can do this interview in the TIMES. It takes a
small man to lie and change a story. I'm telling the
truth about how them dogs are
bred just like I was told before.
(Then proceeds to tell nothing about how the dog as bred)
When ELI got stolen, Cotton gave Jr. $1000 and told him
to go and buy another dog, and said that if there was
another dog he liked that cost more he would make up the
difference. There is a lot of
stories about what happened after this, when ELI got
stolen from Chattanooga. I think he went from Chattanooga
to Memphis and from there on, I just don't know for sure,
but I feel that some of that bunch in Memphis had
something to do with it. I just don't know what happened
with ELI but I feel very strong about this, and I
wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it myself. I truly
believe that ELI was also the sire of that GR. CH. ZEBO
dog.
They were too much alike not to be true. At one time I
gave a nice red puppy to Jerry Clemmons. He is a friend
of mine and I still think a lot of the man. He took the
pup, kept him for 6 weeks and sold the pup. He came here
and I gave him another pup that I had here in the
blacksmith shop. I called that pup SPOOK. She was out of
a litter that killed each other when they were still very
young. He kept her for about 2 months at the most when
she came in season for the first time. He brought her
back and I bred her to ELI. They had 4 pups, 3 black and 1 brindle. Two males and
two females.
http://www.gamedogshistory.com/floydboudreau/
SP Clavelle owned a spotted dog back in them times that
Gaboon Trahan used to breed to his pregnant doges. Gaboon
used the one time & found him to be an average dog,
but very game. Gaboon called the dog Rascal & had
permission to breed to him any time, but Gaboon never
owned the red & white dog he called Rascal. Floyd
bought Rascal from SP Clavelle & Floyd Boudreaux was
the only man to ever register Rascal & only did so
through the UKC several years after Floyd had him on his
yard. Floyd bred Rascal to Lena (Scrub's mama) to produce
Rascal Jr. Rascal Jr. was the sire of many good dogs one
of which Jerome Hernandez called N!gger. N!gger won 5 times for Jerome &
one of them over Scrub. Scrub was matched his first Match
at 40lbs. by Floyd Boudreaux & lost this one to N!gger in 40 minutes.
Floyd Boudreaux became known as the breeder of Eli dogs
& this is true, but we need to look at the whole
picture. Folks, Floyd Boudreaux is
the breeder of Blind Billy dogs! The best of the Dibo
stuff!! Bullyson was a line bred Blind Billy dog! Floyd
Boudreaux owned Blind Billy & Rascal at the same
time. Gypsy was a good daughter of Billy & when she
came into Heat, Floyd bred her as a repeat breeding back
to her sire Blind Billy. Floyd also bred her a week later
but this time to Rascal, as Billy was getting old &
Floyd wanted pups out of the aging Gypsy. Well, Gypsy had
the pups & Ray Charles could see that they were from
Billy. Raymond Elias got one of the pups from this mating
& named him Pistol.
Pistol was a very good dog that was shown only once. He
was matched above his weight & won impressively
anyway. I don't know how Maurice was able to breed him,
or if he even did at all, but the ADBA pedigrees have him
as the grandsire of Art's Missy, Davis' GR.CH. Boomerang
& Clayton's Java (the dam of GR.CH. Art). By the way,
Don Devine got a bitch from Bennett Clayton named Patty.
Don registered her as off Eli Jr. & Java. When Don
got the bitch, all Bennett told him was that she was a
sister to Art, but Bennett did not say she was a
littermate. Patty was indeed of Eli Jr., but her dam was
a quarter Staffordshire; a bitch off Indian Bolio & a
half Staff bitch!
But I would not mind if my dogs had Patty in their
make-up because Patty's dam was a bitch named Ginger.
This is the same Ginger was the dam to Stinson's CH.
Tuffy & Stinson & Glover's CH. Dolemite. Imagine
that. Dolemite's mama a quarter Staff! It must have been
some good Staff blood. So, Patty was a half sister to
Ironhead. Maurice also said Bullyson was a son of
Ironhead & he did that with the man who raised
Bullyson sitting in the same room with him. Just ask
Jerry Clemmons if I am telling the facts. Anyways folks,
no matter what Maurice's papers say,
Ironhead was a son of Blind Billy. Perhaps now you will
understand why Bullyson crossed so well with Ray Long's
two bitches Baby & Tuffy & Art Riley's Missy
& why Eli Jr. crossed well with Bennett Clayton's
Java & why Ronnie Hyde's Satchmo Bully went so well
with his Bloody Sunday. Folks, it's the Blind Billy blood
doing what it's done, biting hard & winning.
So who became the registered sire of the litter? There
were no multi-sired DNA litters then...
And yes, I forgot Brendy. Now there are TWO mystery
colors popping up in the line. Black and brindle both
appearing out of nowhere in a buckskin line of dogs.
Boudreaux admitted that Carver pedigrees were suspect..
And we're supposed to take all this in and just dismiss
scientific genetic proof on top of that and say the
pedigrees are correct, even though there is ample
evidence to allow speculation that they may not be so,
and in fact, are probably NOT so.
K.
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_________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs
even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those
poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because
they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory
nor defeat.
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JayW
Senior
Member
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Posts: 971
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:53 am
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Fair points on both sides....
but scientists didn't breed or show the dogs in
question.... and all the science in the world won't
ferret out the truth. To use science to cast doubt on one
questionable pedigree in order to help validate another
QUESTIONABLE pedigree might be fun.... but it won't provide
an answer with any basis in verifiable fact in my red
neck opinion. I could of-course be wrong... or missing
the point. It sure wouldn't be the first time. These men
were not saints.... they did what they did for whatever
reasons they did them, and left what legacy they had
behind. Those of us without first hand knowledge of what
was bred and why can only make the best decisions based
on the RIGHT now. JMO
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_________________
"A cat can have kittens in an oven...... but that
doesn\'t make them biscuits."<br />
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Mrs. X
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 422
Location: The Outer Reaches
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:20 pm
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All the science in the world
would ferret out the truth if the dogs were alive today.
A simple DNA test would prove definitively. However,
without that being available, you use common sense and
known scientific facts.
Someone trying to get me to accept a line of dogs that
were in their mid 30-40 and buckskin over night turned
into 50 lb plus black dogs is just as ridiculous as
someone trying to get me to accept that the sun rose in
the west and set in the east. Completely against known
science of the time..
And think about this.. WHY where
there rumors, from even back then, that these dogs were
not bred the way the pedigrees said? You don't hear
people say ANY dog in that whole pedigree wasn't bred the
way the paper says, with ONE exception and that is Eli.
Could it possibly be that even then people saw that
SOMETHING was not right???
I would not have said anything, but he and I went back
and forth a little bit in another thread and as far as I
know, I am one of the only people, or perhaps the first
that brought up the Black Jack dogs in conjunction with
Eli dogs, so for him to put that in this little history,
as well as for him to repeat some of the same things
about lies and half truths makes me feel as this was directed
towards me.
Now, I don't CARE. 50 years later, it's NOT something
that effects any single one of
us.
But the FACT remains that SCIENCE and GENETICS say that
Eli is impossible, bred the way he was bred.
For him to use some crack pot theory that they're throw
backs to some old black dogs
waaaaayyy back in the pedigree is ludicrous. Genetics
just don't work the way he is trying to claim.
He is also under the delusion that ADBA pedigrees are
sacrosanct and no fake pedigree would EVER make it on the
holy papers of the ADBA and these SAINTS of the dog game
would NEVER falsify paperwork..
At least MY theory that Eli dogs are really Black Jack
dogs is based on observation and knowledge of genetics.
His is based on I am going to believe what I am told no
matter what, and then try to fit the evidence to support
my view and completely disregard scientific fact.
It's the adult version of neener neener neener, I don't
want to listen, I'm right and you're wrong and you're
even MORE wrong for daring to question anything. You
should just accept what you're told like I do.
Then to basically say people that question the given
pedigree has an agenda?? This is the guy that is so hyped
on these dogs his dogs are given names like Villa
Liberty's Boudreaux El. WHO has an agenda to promote and
protect?
And with the exception of where he pointed out he DOUBLE
SIRED a litter, and USED ANOTHER DOG TO BREED A PREGNANT
BITCH, I'm not even saying it was done with malice. Few
of them would give you the right pedigree on their dogs
because then YOU became the direct competition if you
could breed their dogs the same way they did.
If it was a Boudreaux dog, it was a Boudreaux dog.. Just like with Carver, and we have
NO CLUE how any of his dogs were REALLY bred.. I say the same thing goes for those
dogs.
And the long and short of it, it DOESN'T MATTER. Unless
you're trying to promote yourself and your dogs. Then you
might have a problem with someone questioning 60 year old
pedigrees, even if they have scientific genetic fact on
their side.
K
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_________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious
triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank
with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much
because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither
victory nor defeat.
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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berkley_160 wrote:
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Interesting.
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Berkley, I'm glad that you've been able to read and
understand my written by the Internet translator.
Yes is true, the matter about connection between
"BLACK JACK" and Tudor's "DIBO", you
spoke about it first in the post, you're right. I did not
intend to write anything about this subject and see
everything that was created caused by your fault, lol http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html But it is true that I am satisfied with the result,
and I'm glad to know what you think that is a interesting work, thanks for letting
me know.
The write title: "Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI
/ CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's
"DIBO" family and "DIBO" was
buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs."
In English web site version: http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html
In English by Internet bad translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=
In Spanish web site version: http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html
You say you're the first to speak Connection "BLACK
JACK" with "DIBO"? It is true that you are
the first to do so in this post, but I must clarify the
connection of "BLACK JACK" with
"DIBO" has ALWAYS existed, is nothing new.
For example the Grandmother of "DIBO" of colour
BLACK called Hubbard's "LENA", is descended
from TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK", which is three times
in its fifth generation, two in the sixth and one more in
seventh generation.
About this "interview" Mr. Boudreaux, is more
of the same, hypotheses, assumptions and hypotheses. That
if I believe, that if I would swear, that if rumors, that
if such dog is like another and like is similar already
must has to be its father, blah blah blah. The same old
story but with different words, that is, more of the same
since Carver died in 1979 until nowadays.
Half-truths??? It does not take very intelligent
to observe it, jealousy, contradictions, encouragement of
leadership in the person and his dogs, etc.
About the interview of Mr. Boudreaux, I think if a
breeder says or hints that another breeder is a scammer,
because say that he is a liar with his word and honor in
the pedigrees of their dogs, but then it turns out that
the same breeder that affirm or hints such a thing, he
use in his breeding plan the dogs of the breeder that he
accuses lightly, then it turn his words against
him leaving him in clear evidence that the liar
and swindler would be himself.
To give a quick example about this last and that I have
now come to the my head could be BOUDREUX
'"LUPE", this extraordinary female is a bitch
bred by Maurice Carver and is also seven generations of
the Maurice Carvers breedings.
BOUDREAUX´ “LUPE”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=4114
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berkley_160
wrote:
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You
see Maurice would exaggerate a lot all the time, and he
was smart enough to tell you a lie. Don't get me wrong,
Maurice was a nice guy, but also a liar.
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This is a Huge Contradiction
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berkley_160
wrote:
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Do you
think he misrepresented those papers to keep that a
secret? I'm sure he did to some degree. But in those
days it was pretty much common knowledge that he did
and everybody that needed to know
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?????? Is more of the same,
hypotheses, assumptions and hypotheses. That if I
believe, that I'm sure but not completely, that if I
would swear, that if rumors...
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berkley_160
wrote:
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Boudreaux
admitted that Carver pedigrees were suspect
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(Suspect???? Is or is not, SUSPECT
not work in this matter, then the CORRECT thing is
be prudent.)
If the words of this interview were certainly words of
Mr. Boudreaux, and today Mr. Boudreaux was reaffirmed in
them, my personal opinion like breeder of Mr. Boudreaux
will change completely.
I can understand the discomfort of a person when the
recognition of his work does not dazzle as he would like,
but I can not understand his attitude because recognizing
Carver, that is together him, shines even more brightly.
Even Boudreaux should be thankful to Carver, because many
of his dogs met the popularity thanks to the Carvers job.
Jealousy?
Within the interview says ... Maurice Carver started with
dogs in 1946? And ... Boudreaux began with dogs a year
before than Carver? Lol, lol.
Anyway I do not give much credence to that interview, one
need only look at its content, its words and the picture
that I add in this message to suspect very seriously that
on the day of the interview, the interviewer probably
drunk too many drinks and those words that are seen in
the interview, in reality not correspond with what Mr.
Boudreaux said.
It is ALWAYS equal against Carver, looking for his
discredit, coming with the same arguments, which are
nothing but assumptions, rumors, imaginations and bad
intentions you say or you insinuate like if it was the
truth, always against him. It is ALWAYS the same and more
of the same, this is tired and bored.
I think I'm beginning to understand this issue, what some
people in public places are doing to enter discussions
unproven hypothesis and speak about it like true in
addition to of UNFAIR, they stain the word and honor of
the breeders. Acting in this way is to enforce the
UNFAIR, to insinuate the DIRT for free, dirt or shit
against some breeders insinuate themselves in public
places, and that seems to benefit only those who publicly
promote and spread, for many not in all cases, discredit
the official ADBA pedigree, I think this is the
fundamental reason why the insistence of some people
always in the same question and in the same direction.
I think if someone has evidence that a dog has a false
pedigree, they should report it to the ADBA. In the ADBA
WILL INVESTIGATE IT sure and if is true the report, the
ADBA will act to resolve the matter. What I think is
wrong, is to engage publicly throwing shit to the dogs,
its breeders, owners and fans, because that bad attitude
of some people splashes negatively to the breed in
general.
This is my last post referring to this matter, as I think
the only thing I get with this is to promote something
that does more harm than benefit. It's over!!!
Whoever wants to know my views on this, can watch it on
my public writings, I do not hide anything. I do not want
to convince anyone of anything, nor do I want to waste
anyone's time in debates that are not sufficiently clear
nor clean, debates which I think are unfair, unfounded
and with bad intention to third parties (many now
deceased) and the own breed.
@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER with Pedigree ¿Yes or No?: www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html
@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, A PURE BREED DOG: http://www.fiapbt.net/purebreeddog.htm
@ APBT OFFICIAL PEDIGREE: http://www.fiapbt.net/officialpedigree.html
Berkley, when you talk about that in some occasion the
ADBA has changed some false pedigree for a true pedigree
(I think you do it with the intention of discrediting all
pedigrees, I do not know sure), your words give me reason
about it, the pedigree and the ADBA are necessary to
ensure the truth husbandry way in the breeding dogs and
the truth of the own breed. The Official pedigree and the
ADBA act to ensure that a pure breed dog American Pit
Bull Terrier does not disappear or become extinct among
so many thousands and thousands of crosses of mixed dogs,
which almost all of them, their owners call this kind of
mixed dogs Pit Bull of purebred.
Obviously most of the owners of all those lots of mixed
dogs, are against the pedigree, against the ADBA and
against those we talk about these issues with the heart,
because they do not want to talk about the truth of his
mixed dogs and this circumstance, the mixed dogs, is
not nothing wrong in all it, it's nothing of what they
have to embarrass. The mixed dogs can become even
best dogs than the purebred dogs, but the truth is the
truth and we can not go against it. Surely many of
these mixed dogs are precious and special to do hard
works and sports, but each thing at a drawer. Each
case should go where it belongs, not serves mix issues to
try to confuse the fan, applying the maxim of former U.S.
President Harry Truman, when explaining how to do a trick
or tactic against citizens to achieve the goal
(regardless of the values and ethics of the person to
achieve this), saying: " If you can not convince
them, confuse them."
To want to convince someone like to want to confuse
someone, in my opinion, both are negatives and NO RIGHT.
A couple months ago someone told me that the ADBA
pedigrees are aimed at sincerity always seeking the
truth within of it, above everything and everyone, NO
EXCEPTIONS anything or nobody. This person was H.
Greenwood. Chapo!!! Ole and Ole!!!
By this last and many more subjects, spare any kind of
explanation to understand the importance that have the
ADBA pedigrees in our dogs. ADBA, the International
Canine Mother of the American Pit Bull Terrier by own
merit.
Berkley you are offending me, according to your arguments
you say the most if not all breeders we are liars and
swindlers. You offend me by stating that “your
science” say, it was not
possible puppies born black in my 1998 litter of
"RED OKLAHOMA" X "CLYDE". I say you
and I affirm to you that this litter is made by myself
out and I saw by myself in the moment of born the puppies
out of the womb of my dog "RED OKLAHOMA" 10
puppies, which 7 were black puppies.
If you say that "your science" says I'm
lying and cheating, when I say what my litter of
"RED OKLAHOMA" color Red Nose X
"CLYDE" Buckskin color which 10 puppies borned
in this litter, 3 Color Buckskin and 7 Color Black,
then I say that I do not believe any of "your
science", because what I've done with my hands
and seen with my own eyes, NO EXIST REAL SCIENCE THAT
CAN DENY ME IT. After this, absolutely I not
believe anything about "your science".
By the same rule of three, also you affirm that the
Reverend Howard Heinzl also was a swindler for the
puppies black color obtained from "POLLY" X
"ARIZONA PETE" "your science"
say that it is impossible... so honest and honorable was
this breeder all his life, a gentleman, that is now
questioned and unfairly.
Here is something much more important than the dogs quality from Carver, Eli,
Boudreaux, Heinzl, The Blacks, etc. and is nothing but
the TRUTH. When one does not have complete assurance
that what you are saying is true, even with the mere
insinuation that something can be false without being, is
harmful and even cruel to the person who is accused
of cheat and even more if that person is already dead
like in the case of Mr. Heinzl, Carver, Tudor, etc..,
imagine the pain so great for their family such harmful
comments for the honor, ethics and morals of the people
dead.
Even for the fans of the dogs from the breeder who is
accused of lying or swindler, is also very painful,
especially since it is likely that such a vile, petty
accusation without evidence, will be more fake than a 150
dollar bill.
However, I see a clear obsession by some people in
different places want to subtly discredit the pedigrees,
even if it means having to tarnish the image of breeders,
especially of the most important breeders in the history
of the breed, like are Carver, Heinzl, Boudreaux, Tudor,
etc.
I am not the only one who are seing thats, no, also
already some people have told me recently in private the
same thing that I am seeing and from here and now I tell
them, that do not be AFRAID to show their opinion in
public, nor Berkley and nobody will eat them by the
simply show their opinions, lol.
Berkley, the science I know that is great yes (not yours
if not the science of all) and necessary for proper and
quick humanity evolution, but sometimes the science is
also a liar for not being right, because today it has
scientifically proven that many issues yesterday
scientifically demonstrated to be true, it turns out
that it right now are not and since the rule of three
(science of mathematics), it is more than likely
that tomorrow will be demonstrated scientifically, many
issues today that have been proven scientifically as
true, then will neither conformed to the right nor to the
truth.
To say, that this writing I've done selflessly with good
intention and with my heart in hand, only I show my views
and lived experiences within the breed in various facets,
with the hope and desire that certain information and
some historical pictures will not lost with the passage
of time. This writing I have not done with the intention
to offend anyone, which I consider a waste of time, lack
of respect and lack of inteligence.
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berkley_160
wrote:
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I'm
right and you're wrong and you're even MORE wrong for
daring to question anything.
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Ok, you're right, you're in the truth and I'm wrong,
sorry, will not happen it again, I
assure you.
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berkley_160
wrote:
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and I have already made my mark
on history, and I plan on leaving more.
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I wish you that you continue doing much more history than
you say that already you've done and that all your
projects that you say that you have, I wish you ending
with great success. Good luck.
Mariano Peinado
P.D. For more diverse information that you need, you can
acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
________________
Villa Liberty kennels: http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org
“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should
not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE
NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”
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Last edited by villaliberty on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:21 am;
edited 7 times in total
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wellkennels
Senior
Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 431
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:36 pm
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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wellkennels
wrote:
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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530
was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta
blurred...RS
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The Dam of "Black Widow" called Red Oklahoma is
Red Nose, the colour that you
saw in her picture online pedigree is the right colour.
And with that information at least for my part, I will
end this matter, if you want to contact with me you can
do by email. It's over at least for me!!!
Thank you for your interesting
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wellkennels
Senior
Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 431
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:15 pm
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villaliberty
wrote:
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wellkennels wrote:
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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530
was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta
blurred...RS
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The Dam of "Black Widow" called Red Oklahoma
is Red Nose, the colour that
you saw in her picture online pedigree is the right
colour.
And with that information at least for my part, I will
end this matter, if you want to contact with me you can
do by email. It's over at least for me!!!
Thank you for your interesting
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villa we don't have any further questions
to send your email the one we asked was satisfied. Now we
aren't sure why you chose to respond to our simple
question in such a odd manner,
as the pic you have entered of black widows dam is
definitely blurred and we only asked you to clarify her
coat. some list red/ red nose
when they aren't and pictures used on pedigrees reflect
different hues due to lighting available. not sure why when someone disagrees or
ask questions or a post don't receive all positive
atta-boys some are easily offended and become defensive
toward others. maybe the
insecurity one has in their understanding is reflected by
the defensive attitude they respond with instead of
responding in a typical informative and polite manner.
you are not the first or the last to develop ideas that
will be challenged but we would suggest if you can't
stand the heat don't go in the kitchen as many famous
theories have failed when challenged despite any prior
belief or support they may have had about them...good
luck 
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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wellkennels
wrote:
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villaliberty wrote:
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wellkennels wrote:
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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530
was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta
blurred...RS
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The Dam of "Black Widow" called Red
Oklahoma is Red Nose, the
colour that you saw in her picture online pedigree is
the right colour.
And with that information at least for my part, I
will end this matter, if you want to contact with me
you can do by email. It's over at least for me!!!
Thank you for your interesting
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villa we don't have any
further questions to send your email the one we asked
was satisfied. Now we aren't sure why you chose to respond
to our simple question in such a
odd manner, as the pic you have entered of black widows
dam is definitely blurred and we only asked you to
clarify her coat. some list
red/ red nose when they aren't and pictures used on
pedigrees reflect different hues due to lighting
available. not sure why when
someone disagrees or ask questions or a post don't
receive all positive atta-boys some are easily offended
and become defensive toward others. maybe
the insecurity one has in their understanding is
reflected by the defensive attitude they respond with
instead of responding in a typical informative and
polite manner. you are not the first or the last to
develop ideas that will be challenged but we would
suggest if you can't stand the heat don't go in the kitchen
as many famous theories have failed when challenged
despite any prior belief or support they may have had
about them...good luck
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Sorry, I think that my bad english can lead to some
misinterpretations or misunderstandings. Thanks for
telling me it
This is the Online Pedigree with picture of my "Red
Oklahoma" that died in 2013: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=85467
In the next pictures of my "Red Oklahoma" you
can see very well the colour Red Nose:
Thank you and take care.
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Last edited by villaliberty on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:33 am;
edited 3 times in total
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jboogy
Senior
Member
Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 587
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:42 pm
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That Red Oklahoma dog looks more
Chocolate than Red Rednose. Chocolate dogs will produce
Black dogs when bred buckskin dogs. The chocolate is a
recessive Black color that will revert back to Black when
crossed into another colored blacknosed animal.
An example of this would be this breeding. The Sire was
Red black nosed and the dame was White with Chocolate
patch on her head. The litter produced 7 pups, 6 of which
were either Black or Seal with a little white. One looked like the Sire.
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_________________
"Chess Never Checkers"
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monodebronze
Senior
Member
Joined: May 08, 2013
Posts: 2271
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:47 pm
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jboogy wrote:
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That
Red Oklahoma dog looks more Chocolate than Red Rednose.
Chocolate dogs will produce Black dogs when bred
buckskin dogs. The chocolate is a recessive Black color
that will revert back to Black when crossed into
another colored blacknosed animal.
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Chocolate and rednose is the same thing. If you breed a
rednose to a buckskin dog you can also produce black
dogs. Breed a chocolate to a regular rednose you will get
rednoses/ chocolate.
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_________________
definition of stupid .... knowing the truth.... seeing the truth... yet still believing the lies.
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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Thank you my friends.
I give you my honor word that in the litter of my female
Red Nose called "Red Oklahoma" X
"CLYDE" of Buckskin color, black puppies coming
in there.
The stud and that litter I've done with my hands and seen
with my own eyes, NO EXIST REAL SCIENCE THAT CAN DENY ME
IT.
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marrero
Junior
Member
Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Posts: 255
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:57 pm
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Villa liberty is a good friend
of mine, is a guy who you can trust... and his ped are
correct.
believe or not, I thing is not any correct science about
color of pups...
Good job
master¡¡¡¡¡¡
Un abrazo
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